Replacement for UI-View any one

[Phillip]

Hi,
Ok I am not looking for a fight here , but reality is that we are
going to need a WINDOZE APRS program along the lines of
UI-View with some improvements sooner than later !!!

Is there any-one out there working on something similar and if so I would be
interested in hearing from you off list is fine ..

73 Phillip

ZL2TZE

[Peter Mallett]

Phillip wrote:
> Hi,
> Ok I am not looking for a fight here , but reality is that we are
> going to need a WINDOZE APRS program along the lines of
> UI-View with some improvements sooner than later !!!
>
> Is there any-one out there working on something similar and if so I would be
> interested in hearing from you off list is fine ..
>
> 73 Phillip
>
> ZL2TZE
>

Hi,

There is already, it`s called *Xastir* and it is* *under continual
development.

Either run on a Linux box ( the best ) or Windows / VMWare ( yuk )

Regards ..... Peter

[Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)]

Peter Mallett wrote:
> There is already, it`s called *Xastir* and it is* *under continual
> development.
>
> Either run on a Linux box ( the best ) or Windows / VMWare ( yuk )

VMWare under Windows is not what was requested, but I tried to find the
VMWare image and failed. Any hints on where such a thing can be retrieved?

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ

PS. The xastir.org Windows reference at:

http://www.xastir.org/wiki/index.php/Downloads#WINDOWS

referred me to "VMWare Player Images" at

http://northwest.aprs2.net/rivettracker/

But none of the torrents I see listed there mention VMWare. Links would
be appreciated.

[Greg D.]

Hi Lynn,

VMWare is a virtual machine environment; the "player" program is a free download from http://www.vmware.com/products/player. You can't create virtual machines with it, but you can run ("play") machines that others have made. So, someone packaged up a Linux virtual machine, complete with a copy of Xastir. You fire up vmware on your Windows machine, and then load the Xastir/Linux machine inside there, where it runs as if it was running native on its own PC. Really quite clever.

I actually do the reverse... on my Linux PC I have a little virtual machine where I run Windows, for those few things that can only run there. Works out great.

Anyway, for a link, I'd start with the Windows link you referenced from the Xastir site.

Good luck,

Greg KO6TH


> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:59:06 -0500
> From: ldeffenb-***@public.gmane.org
> To: aprssig-***@public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: [aprssig] Replacement for UI-View any one
>
> Peter Mallett wrote:
> > There is already, it`s called *Xastir* and it is* *under continual
> > development.
> >
> > Either run on a Linux box ( the best ) or Windows / VMWare ( yuk )
>
> VMWare under Windows is not what was requested, but I tried to find the
> VMWare image and failed. Any hints on where such a thing can be retrieved?
>
> Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ
>
> PS. The xastir.org Windows reference at:
>
> http://www.xastir.org/wiki/index.php/Downloads#WINDOWS
>
> referred me to "VMWare Player Images" at
>
> http://northwest.aprs2.net/rivettracker/
>
> But none of the torrents I see listed there mention VMWare. Links would
> be appreciated.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> aprssig mailing list
> aprssig-***@public.gmane.org
> https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig

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[Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)]

Greg D. wrote:
> VMWare is a virtual machine environment; the "player" program is a
> free download from http://www.vmware.com/products/player. You can't
> create virtual machines with it, but you can run ("play") machines
> that others have made. So, someone packaged up a Linux virtual
> machine, complete with a copy of Xastir. You fire up vmware on your
> Windows machine, and then load the Xastir/Linux machine inside there,
> where it runs as if it was running native on its own PC. Really quite
> clever.
>
> I actually do the reverse... on my Linux PC I have a little virtual
> machine where I run Windows, for those few things that can only run
> there. Works out great.
>
> Anyway, for a link, I'd start with the Windows link you referenced
> from the Xastir site.

Thanks for the information but I already know and use VMWare
Workstation. With that, I CAN create my own VMs. My question was very
forcused and directed as I already chased the Windows links, over to the
BitTorrent Tracker, but NONE of the .torrents being tracked there
mention anything about BEING a VMWare image. I was trying to save my
bandwidth (and others doing the same thing) by asking if someone could
clarify which of the .torrents was the advertised image rather than just
downloading everything that isn't obviously a map set just to find the
needle in the haystack.

So, can you tell me which one IS the actual image, or do I have to wait
for my .torrent downloads to finish (yes, I queued up all of the non-map
.torrents) to find out for myself.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ

PS. Ok, the needle in a haystack was an exaggeration, but if you (or
anyone else) want someone to try something, please consider making it
obvious and not just throwing out "it exists, see if you can find it".

[Jason KG4WSV]

On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 6:04 AM, Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
<ldeffenb-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> So, can you tell me which one IS the actual image, or do I have to wait for
> my .torrent downloads to finish

Don't know about the torrents, but somehow the links to ftp/http
downloadable images fell off the wiki. Some are on my server at

http://www.eng.uah.edu/pub/xastir/

(also available via FTP). I may not have the latest.

-Jason
kg4wsv

[Greg D.]

Hi Lynn,

Ah, sorry. I didn't understand your question.

Unfortunately, I'm not a torrent user, so I can't advise you. Hopefully by now things have worked themselves out.

Good luck,

Greg KO6TH


> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 07:04:33 -0500
> From: ldeffenb-***@public.gmane.org
> To: aprssig-***@public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: [aprssig] Replacement for UI-View any one
>
> Greg D. wrote:
> > VMWare is a virtual machine environment; the "player" program is a
> > free download from http://www.vmware.com/products/player. You can't
> > create virtual machines with it, but you can run ("play") machines
> > that others have made. So, someone packaged up a Linux virtual
> > machine, complete with a copy of Xastir. You fire up vmware on your
> > Windows machine, and then load the Xastir/Linux machine inside there,
> > where it runs as if it was running native on its own PC. Really quite
> > clever.
> >
> > I actually do the reverse... on my Linux PC I have a little virtual
> > machine where I run Windows, for those few things that can only run
> > there. Works out great.
> >
> > Anyway, for a link, I'd start with the Windows link you referenced
> > from the Xastir site.
>
> Thanks for the information but I already know and use VMWare
> Workstation. With that, I CAN create my own VMs. My question was very
> forcused and directed as I already chased the Windows links, over to the
> BitTorrent Tracker, but NONE of the .torrents being tracked there
> mention anything about BEING a VMWare image. I was trying to save my
> bandwidth (and others doing the same thing) by asking if someone could
> clarify which of the .torrents was the advertised image rather than just
> downloading everything that isn't obviously a map set just to find the
> needle in the haystack.
>
> So, can you tell me which one IS the actual image, or do I have to wait
> for my .torrent downloads to finish (yes, I queued up all of the non-map
> .torrents) to find out for myself.
>
> Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ
>
> PS. Ok, the needle in a haystack was an exaggeration, but if you (or
> anyone else) want someone to try something, please consider making it
> obvious and not just throwing out "it exists, see if you can find it".
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> aprssig mailing list
> aprssig-***@public.gmane.org
> https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig

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[Peter Mallett]

Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:
> Peter Mallett wrote:
>> There is already, it`s called *Xastir* and it is* *under continual
>> development.
>>
>> Either run on a Linux box ( the best ) or Windows / VMWare ( yuk )
>
> VMWare under Windows is not what was requested, but I tried to find
> the VMWare image and failed. Any hints on where such a thing can be
> retrieved?
>
> Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ
>
> PS. The xastir.org Windows reference at:
>
> http://www.xastir.org/wiki/index.php/Downloads#WINDOWS
>
> referred me to "VMWare Player Images" at
>
> http://northwest.aprs2.net/rivettracker/
>
> But none of the torrents I see listed there mention VMWare. Links
> would be appreciated.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> aprssig mailing list
> aprssig-***@public.gmane.org
> https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig
>

Hi Lynn,

The links appear to work here ok, the ones you have given.

You can download the VM Player which is free, just put "VM Player" in
google and lots of links will pop up.

I realize this is not was originally ask for but it is an alternative to
UI-View.

Regards ..... Peter

[Bob Burns W9RXR]

At 10:06 PM 1/21/2010, Peter Mallett wrote:

>>Ok I am not looking for a fight here , but reality is that we are
>>going to need a WINDOZE APRS program along the lines of UI-View
>>with some improvements sooner than later !!!
>>
>>Is there any-one out there working on something similar and if so I
>>would be interested in hearing from you off list is fine ..
>
> There is already, it`s called *Xastir* and it is* *under continual
> development.
>
>Either run on a Linux box ( the best ) or Windows / VMWare ( yuk )

I have to disagree (oops, here comes the "fight" <grin>).

I don't discount Xastir's value to the APRS community. It appears to
be a good program. However, we should face some realities.

First, we live in a Windows world. Like or not, the majority of the
computers in U.S. homes and businesses are running Windows. Users are
familiar with Windows. It's easy to find Windows support. And you can
buy a Windows computer almost anywhere. Yes, you will counter that
you can load some version of Linux on just about any Windows
computer, but I will counter that the average computer user doesn't
want to bother with trying to make Linux work.

Second, APRS is viewed by many in the amateur radio world as a
"techie" mode. When I talk to other hams about APRS, some are
interested and want to try it, but many just shut me out because they
don't want to climb the learning curve. Kenwood and Yaesu have helped
raise APRS awareness with their hardware solutions, but as we all
know, that only takes you so far. Eventually, you need to run an APRS
client on a computer to take full advantage of the mode. In order for
APRS to gain more interest among hams, there has to be an easy way into it.

OK, some of you are sitting back there saying "Gee, Bob, you're
talking about dumbing down APRS to the lowest common denominator." I
suppose maybe I am. My fear, though, is that if we don't make APRS
easy, it will eventually die due to lack of interest. Remember 20
years ago when just about every town had somebody running a 1200 baud
Packet BBS? Where did they all go? I write it off to lack of
interest. Do we want the same thing to happen to the APRS digis? I
don't think so.

Enough of my philosophizing. I think we need an answer to Phillip's
question. We need a new APRS client program--one that is easy to set
up for the ARPS newbie while fully implementing all APRS features for
the more experienced user. Initially, I think it should be a Windows
program, but a portable program that can run on MacOS and Linux would
be a real plus. And it should have solid mapping support with zoom
and pan. Yes, Xastir running under VMWare may be a viable answer, but
the instant you mention something like VMWare or Cygnus to a newbie,
they start to turn away. It has to be easy and it has to run in an
environment they are familiar with.

Bob...

[Amateur Radio WB8NUT]

I use two APRS programs on Windows - Xastir and AGWTracker. AGWTracker
needs some work and still waiting for features George said he would
implement years ago. If he ever finishes what he said he would do,
AGWTracker could be an excellent replacement for UIView. For instance,
George said he was going to add an interface that would allow all the
existing UIView modules to work with AGWTracker - that would be great
and would bring all the UIView users to his program. But its been years
and still nothing.

So until AGWTracker comes around, I run Xastir under a Xubuntu virtual
machine using the free VMware Player on Windows. It "talks" to AGWPE
with is the engine running under Windows 7 which communicates to all my
TNCs. This is all very easy to set-up, use and run. Also, for those
interested, it lets them have a Linux system to run and learn without
leaving the comfort of Windows.

Xastir has an excellent group of users always ready to help and a very
detailed wiki to help you through setting up Xastir, running on a
virtual machine, etc. Just about everything you need to know is in the
wiki. Absolutely wonderful program.

Duffy
www.wb8nut.com

Bob Burns W9RXR wrote:
> At 10:06 PM 1/21/2010, Peter Mallett wrote:
>
>>> Ok I am not looking for a fight here , but reality is that we are
>>> going to need a WINDOZE APRS program along the lines of UI-View with
>>> some improvements sooner than later !!!
>>>
>>> Is there any-one out there working on something similar and if so I
>>> would be interested in hearing from you off list is fine ..
>>
>> There is already, it`s called *Xastir* and it is* *under continual
>> development.
>>
>> Either run on a Linux box ( the best ) or Windows / VMWare ( yuk )
>
> I have to disagree (oops, here comes the "fight" <grin>).
>
> I don't discount Xastir's value to the APRS community. It appears to
> be a good program. However, we should face some realities.
>
> First, we live in a Windows world. Like or not, the majority of the
> computers in U.S. homes and businesses are running Windows. Users are
> familiar with Windows. It's easy to find Windows support. And you can
> buy a Windows computer almost anywhere. Yes, you will counter that you
> can load some version of Linux on just about any Windows computer, but
> I will counter that the average computer user doesn't want to bother
> with trying to make Linux work.
>
> Second, APRS is viewed by many in the amateur radio world as a
> "techie" mode. When I talk to other hams about APRS, some are
> interested and want to try it, but many just shut me out because they
> don't want to climb the learning curve. Kenwood and Yaesu have helped
> raise APRS awareness with their hardware solutions, but as we all
> know, that only takes you so far. Eventually, you need to run an APRS
> client on a computer to take full advantage of the mode. In order for
> APRS to gain more interest among hams, there has to be an easy way
> into it.
>
> OK, some of you are sitting back there saying "Gee, Bob, you're
> talking about dumbing down APRS to the lowest common denominator." I
> suppose maybe I am. My fear, though, is that if we don't make APRS
> easy, it will eventually die due to lack of interest. Remember 20
> years ago when just about every town had somebody running a 1200 baud
> Packet BBS? Where did they all go? I write it off to lack of interest.
> Do we want the same thing to happen to the APRS digis? I don't think so.
>
> Enough of my philosophizing. I think we need an answer to Phillip's
> question. We need a new APRS client program--one that is easy to set
> up for the ARPS newbie while fully implementing all APRS features for
> the more experienced user. Initially, I think it should be a Windows
> program, but a portable program that can run on MacOS and Linux would
> be a real plus. And it should have solid mapping support with zoom and
> pan. Yes, Xastir running under VMWare may be a viable answer, but the
> instant you mention something like VMWare or Cygnus to a newbie, they
> start to turn away. It has to be easy and it has to run in an
> environment they are familiar with.
>
> Bob...
>
> _______________________________________________
> aprssig mailing list
> aprssig-***@public.gmane.org
> https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2638 - Release Date: 01/22/10 07:34:00
>
>

[Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)]

Join the APRSISCE Yahoo group and download APRSIS32. I'm working on a
new APRS-IS client for both Windows Mobile and Windows 32. The current
release only does -IS, but the next release will do KISS TNCs and NMEA
serial GPS.

Over time I hope to bring it up to full APRS V1.2 compliance (it already
does Item-As-Message for instance) as well as to support the most
popular features of UI-View along with the most commonly used plugins.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

Phillip wrote:
> Hi,
> Ok I am not looking for a fight here , but reality is that we are
> going to need a WINDOZE APRS program along the lines of
> UI-View with some improvements sooner than later !!!
>
> Is there any-one out there working on something similar and if so I would be
> interested in hearing from you off list is fine ..
>
> 73 Phillip
>
> ZL2TZE
>

[Randy Love]

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 10:19 PM, Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
<ldeffenb-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Join the APRSISCE Yahoo group and download APRSIS32. I'm working on a new
> APRS-IS client for both Windows Mobile and Windows 32. The current release
> only does -IS, but the next release will do KISS TNCs and NMEA serial GPS.
>

Hey, Lynn.

Please please PLEASE implement the AGWPE interface. That will open up
your application to almost ALL existing TNC's as well as soundcard
based TNC's.

Not to mention access to the TNC via TCP/IP on a local network. The
trick is to allow the user to set the host address/name so that AGWPE
doesn't have to be running on the local host. My one TNC pulls triple
duty right now via AGWPE. It runs the UI-DIGI on it's local host as
well as UI-View32 on the shack computer ( and agwtracker too ) and
UI-View32 on the tablet pc when I'm not in the shack. :)

Thanks for working on a replacement, but until it's all hammered out,
I'll probably keep UI-View32 running in our Win32 based critical
applications. Now, that's not to say that I wouldn't be willing to
help beta test later on. :)

73,
Randy
WF5X

[Stephen H. Smith]

On 1/21/2010 7:19 PM, Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:
> Join the APRSISCE Yahoo group and download APRSIS32. I'm working on a
> new APRS-IS client for both Windows Mobile and Windows 32. The
> current release only does -IS, but the next release will do KISS TNCs
> and NMEA serial GPS.
>
> Over time I hope to bring it up to full APRS V1.2 compliance (it
> already does Item-As-Message for instance) as well as to support the
> most popular features of UI-View along with the most commonly used
> plugins.
>
> Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
>

What type of mapping support are you planning for this program?


------------------------------------------------------------------------

--

Stephen H. Smith wa8lmf (at) aol.com
EchoLink Node: WA8LMF or 14400 [Think bottom of the 2M band]
Skype: WA8LMF
Home Page: http://wa8lmf.net

NEW! Universal HF/VHF/UHF Antenna Mounting System
http://wa8lmf.net/mobile/UniversalAntMountSystem.htm

"APRS 101" Explanation of APRS Path Selection & Digipeating
http://wa8lmf.net/DigiPaths

Updated "Rev H" APRS http://wa8lmf.net/aprs
Symbols Set for UI-View,
UIpoint and APRSplus:

[Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)]

Stephen H. Smith wrote:
> What type of mapping support are you planning for this program?

APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32 currently uses OpenStreetMap.org
maps automatically and on-the-fly. I've got a ToDo for myself to
support UI-View's map/inf approach, but that's lower on my priority list
than many other features.

There's no pre-loading of maps, no coordinate pinning, and you can pan
and zoom anywhere in the world with the map tiles being automatically
fetched and displayed. If there's a favorite feature or landmark
missing in your area, sign up at OpenStreetMap.org and enhance the map!

As the client is currently APRS-IS-only, it relies on an unlimited
Internet connection anyway, so fetching tiles on the fly is not an
impact. I do plan to support a view-based prefetch (tiles are already
cached) for off-line use shortly after releasing the KISS TNC supporting
version.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

PS. If you want to see who's already running the clients, add
"u/APWW*/APWM*" to your filter string in your current APRS-IS client.

[Andy Pritchard]

AGW Tracker

http://www.agwtracker.com/

Andy, M0CYP - Telford
http://www.apritch.myby.co.uk/uiview.htm
http://www.apritch.myby.co.uk/radioprop.htm


--------------------------------------------------
From: "Phillip" <zl2tze-/***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:52 AM
To: <aprssig-***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: [aprssig] Replacement for UI-View any one

> Hi,
> Ok I am not looking for a fight here , but reality is that we are
> going to need a WINDOZE APRS program along the lines of
> UI-View with some improvements sooner than later !!!
>
> Is there any-one out there working on something similar and if so I would
> be
> interested in hearing from you off list is fine ..
>
> 73 Phillip
>
> ZL2TZE
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> aprssig mailing list
> aprssig-***@public.gmane.org
> https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig

[Wes Johnston, AI4PX]

I know this thread is going to turn into a religious war.... but....

xastir with the co-linux kernel is the way to go. Have run xastir using
cygwin and it worked well, but a couple of years ago cygwin broke and I gave
up (maybe it works now??). VM ware running some variant of linux within
windows works but its a little clunky for the users to figure out why their
mouse won't move outside the bounds of the window. I used co-linux about a
year ago and it was really slick.

http://www.xastir.org/wiki/index.php/HowTo:Windows_andLinux

The best part about xastir.... it's actively being developed.

Wes

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:52, Phillip <zl2tze-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Hi,
> Ok I am not looking for a fight here , but reality is that we are
> going to need a WINDOZE APRS program along the lines of
> UI-View with some improvements sooner than later !!!
>
> Is there any-one out there working on something similar and if so I would
> be
> interested in hearing from you off list is fine ..
>
> 73 Phillip
>
> ZL2TZE
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> aprssig mailing list
> aprssig-***@public.gmane.org
> https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig
>



--
Wes
---
God help those who do not help themselves.

[Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)]

Wes Johnston, AI4PX wrote:
> xastir with the co-linux kernel is the way to go. Have run xastir
> using cygwin and it worked well, but a couple of years ago cygwin
> broke and I gave up (maybe it works now??). VM ware running some
> variant of linux within windows works but its a little clunky for the
> users to figure out why their mouse won't move outside the bounds of
> the window. I used co-linux about a year ago and it was really slick.
>
> http://www.xastir.org/wiki/index.php/HowTo:Windows_andLinux
>

Apparently, according to http://www.andlinux.org/ andLinux which that
link to Xastir requires, only works on 32-bit Windows platforms. There
are those of us that have already graduated to 64 bit Windows and won't
look back. And, no, I'm not going to fire up a 32 bit XP penalty box
under 64 bit Windows to run a coLinux-based andLinux just to fire up an
APRS client. Yes, I CAN do that, but I'd really rather run a native
client. There wasn't one, so I'm building one and welcoming others'
input to help me make it better.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

(but not unwilling to try out what others have done / are doing if it's
not too convoluted or difficult)

[Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)]

Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:
> Yes, I CAN do that, but I'd really rather run a native client. There
> wasn't one, so I'm building one and welcoming others' input to help me
> make it better.
>

Ok, that final statement didn't come out quite right. UI-View is a
GREAT program by a wonderful person that gave LOTS of personal
investment to the APRS community. As a developer, I can understand his
final wishes and will never, ever disparage his work nor his memory.

My statement should have been more along the lines of "there wasn't one
(a NATIVE client) being CURRENTLY SUPPORTED...". My apologies if anyone
was offended before I re-read my own comment. I meant no disrespect, so
please lower the flame-throwers.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

[Wes Johnston, AI4PX]

OK, but the original poster said nothing about 64 bit. You do realize that
your sig line says win32, right? :-P Me thinks you just trying to be
difficult.

Wes

On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 08:16, Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr) <
ldeffenb-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Wes Johnston, AI4PX wrote:
>
>> xastir with the co-linux kernel is the way to go. Have run xastir using
>> cygwin and it worked well, but a couple of years ago cygwin broke and I gave
>> up (maybe it works now??). VM ware running some variant of linux within
>> windows works but its a little clunky for the users to figure out why their
>> mouse won't move outside the bounds of the window. I used co-linux about a
>> year ago and it was really slick.
>> http://www.xastir.org/wiki/index.php/HowTo:Windows_andLinux
>>
>>
>
> Apparently, according to http://www.andlinux.org/ andLinux which that link
> to Xastir requires, only works on 32-bit Windows platforms. There are those
> of us that have already graduated to 64 bit Windows and won't look back.
> And, no, I'm not going to fire up a 32 bit XP penalty box under 64 bit
> Windows to run a coLinux-based andLinux just to fire up an APRS client.
> Yes, I CAN do that, but I'd really rather run a native client. There
> wasn't one, so I'm building one and welcoming others' input to help me make
> it better.
>
>
> Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
>
> (but not unwilling to try out what others have done / are doing if it's not
> too convoluted or difficult)
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> aprssig mailing list
> aprssig-***@public.gmane.org
> https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig
>



--
Wes
---
God help those who do not help themselves.

[John Fritze]

I know hams are notoriously "thifty" but you've really got to look at
Depiction. This just blows away anything else out there right now.
Especially for EMCOMM purposes. The writers have just added real time APRS
via radio modem, and are planning easier texting, etc. Origenally it would
only gather APRS station off the web.

This program gathers info from many different sources and makes overlays on
maps for things like real time routing of stations around flooded areas,
land slides, etc. You can also input points of interest such as hospitals,
fire departments, schools, etc. It can actually make predictions regarding
an emergency situation and display the danger zone on the map.

It is not cheap, BUT if you look around on the site, there are discounts
for hams.

Anyway here's the URL: http://www.depiction.com/

John
K2QY

[Randy Love]

On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 8:32 AM, John Fritze <fritzejohn-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I know hams are notoriously "thifty" but you've really got to look at
> Depiction. This just blows away anything else out there right now.
> Especially for EMCOMM purposes. The writers have just added real time APRS
> via radio modem, and are planning easier texting, etc. Origenally it would
> only gather APRS station off the web.
>

I have heard about and seen various information on Depiction. But it
was intended more for emergency managers and incident commanders than
day to day APRS usage. If I recall correctly, APRS was added as an
afterthought, meaning that it's main purpose is and will always be
something other than APRS. As such, I don't think that it will ever
have full adherence to the APRS spec, which is already a problem in
some current clients due to the focus on APRS as a tracking solution
instead of a full tactical solution. If Depiction makes a commitment
to full adherence to the APRS spec, with on-host map support, then it
may very well be a good Windows replacement for UI-View32. If I'm
wrong, then I will stand corrected.

> This program gathers info from many different sources and makes overlays on
> maps for things like real time routing of stations around flooded areas,
> land slides, etc.  You can also input points of interest such as hospitals,
> fire departments, schools, etc.  It can actually make predictions regarding
> an emergency situation and display the danger zone on the map.
>

All of the above can be handled in UI-View by the addition/creation of
add-ons. Points of interest and static locations can be distributed to
the group via posit or overlay files. Any real time data not handled
by an add-on is meant to be controlled/maintained by a net control or
APRS control operator. Automated objects, as evidenced by the CO-Op Wx
network and Firenet, can quickly clutter a channel/display and make
things overwhelming or just plain display non-relevant information.

> It is not cheap, BUT if you look around on the site,  there are discounts
> for hams.

Hams don't want to spend over $50 for an extra battery for their HT,
and to the majority of hams out there, that would be more important in
an EMCOMM event than APRS software. If Depiction made a version for
APRS specific purposes, that was fully APRS spec compliant, and was
under $50, then they might get a following in the ham community. Until
then, Depiction is a piece of Emergency Management software that they
will petition their EMA/HSD to purchase for use in an EOC environment.
I'm not sure what the discount is, but the base price of $199 + $19.95
for the APRS add-on is more than the cost of an FT-60 5W dual-band HT!
Just curious, what is the current discount price on Depiction for
hams?

> Anyway here's the URL:  http://www.depiction.com/

Been there already, and although their intent is good, their intent is
NOT to make an APRS client. It looks like a wonderful EM planning and
status tool. Sorry, just calling it how I see it. Please don't take
offense.

> John
> K2QY

Thanks John. There's absolutely nothing wrong with beating the drum
for something you like or believe in. I do that alot myself,
especially in regards to just getting APRS used during events and for
more than just tracking of cars.

73,
Randy
WF5X

[Dave Skolnick]

> From: "Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)" <ldeffenb-***@public.gmane.org>
> As the client is currently APRS-IS-only, it relies on an unlimited
> Internet connection anyway, so fetching tiles on the fly is not an
> impact.  I do plan to support a view-based prefetch (tiles are already
> cached) for off-line use shortly after releasing the KISS TNC supporting
> version.

Perhaps I am in the minority, but although I have a data-card for
connection to the Internet I have often found myself in places without
any connection for days on end (motoring a boat up the ICW through
South and North Carolina for example). An application that provided
even rough maps that I could correlate to paper or my electronic
chartplotter would be great. I'd be happy with a blank slate that has
a clear lat/long grid on it.

sail fast, dave KO4MI
S/V Auspicious WDC9882

[Alan P. Biddle]

Morning,

If you are trying to woo UI-VIEW32 users, the ability to use the Precision
Mapping Streets and Traveler program would be great. I find the program
itself a bit clunky, but the interface to UI-VIEW32 makes everything very
portable. They are aware that they get a small but significant part of
their sales from that, and would probably be receptive to another source of
income. ;)

Alan
WA4SCA

[Curt, WE7U]

On Fri, 22 Jan 2010, Phillip wrote:

> Ok I am not looking for a fight here , but reality is that we are
> going to need a WINDOZE APRS program along the lines of
> UI-View with some improvements sooner than later !!!
>
> Is there any-one out there working on something similar and if so I would be
> interested in hearing from you off list is fine ..

As I find out about them, programs along with a list of their
capabilities show up here:

http://www.eskimo.com/~archer/aprs_capabilities.html

There are other pages that show which are the most used,
capabilities of trackers, etc. Go to the ~archer page for those
links.

--
Curt, WE7U. <http://www.eskimo.com/~archer>
APRS: Where it's at! <http://www.xastir.org>
Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math. - unknown
Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates. - WE7U.
The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"

[Amateur Radio WB8NUT]

From what I could see, the information on that site about the various
APRS programs is out of date.

There are a number of good Windows based APRS programs out there, it's
just that their authors have abandoned them. I wish when they give up
their development or interest that they make their code open source so
that others can pick it up and run with it. That's why I have not used
UIView in years. I was one of its very early adopters and promoters, and
unlike others, am highly ticked off at what Roger did before he died.
Such a waste. I can understand his bitterness though, but it would have
been nice if he would have made the source public so others could keep
UIV going long into the future. Please not trying to start a flame war
and I am sure there are others who will defend Roger's actions, but it's
my opinion. I think what he did was wrong.

AGWTracker had some possibilities, but instead of finishing the work,
George wrote yet another APRS program for Windows Mobile. I wish he
would finish what he started and committed to.

WinAPRS was a very good program, but seems to be abandoned.

APRSPoint has promise, but releases are slow to come out and feed it too
much data in a few days period, and it crashes.

APRS-SCS gave up pretty early in that development, but as I recall, he
did make the source public. Don't know if anyone else is continuing that
program. I bought a license because he said he was going to add support
for AGWPE, but I don't think he ever did.

So that's really the attraction of Xastir. It's open source, if the
current developers give up and lose interest, hopefully someone else
will fill in and keep it going. At least there is hope. As for
everything else that is Windows based, when the developers lose
interest, we end up as orphans.

It would be nice if there was some kind of code of ethics with
developers of ANY amateur radio software. You promise that if you ever
want to stop development, pass-away, give-up, etc., that you will make
the source code open source and make the generation of the code
necessary to use your program public. I don't mind paying for programs,
but I would like some guarantee that I can still continue to use it in
the future. I have paid for licenses for WinAPRS, AGWTracker, APRS-SCS,
MixW, AGWPE-Pro, APRSPoint, UISS, WinTNC, and multiple donations to Ham
Radio Deluxe. Not a big investment, but an investment none the less.

JMHO

Duffy
www.wb8nut.com

Curt, WE7U wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jan 2010, Phillip wrote:
>
>> Ok I am not looking for a fight here , but reality is that we are
>> going to need a WINDOZE APRS program along the lines of
>> UI-View with some improvements sooner than later !!!
>>
>> Is there any-one out there working on something similar and if so I
>> would be
>> interested in hearing from you off list is fine ..
>
> As I find out about them, programs along with a list of their
> capabilities show up here:
>
> http://www.eskimo.com/~archer/aprs_capabilities.html
>
> There are other pages that show which are the most used,
> capabilities of trackers, etc. Go to the ~archer page for those
> links.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2638 - Release Date: 01/22/10 07:34:00
>
>

[Tim N9PUZ]

Amateur Radio WB8NUT wrote:

> So that's really the attraction of Xastir. It's open source,
> if the current developers give up and lose interest, hopefully
> someone else will fill in and keep it going. At least there is
> hope. As for everything else that is Windows based, when the
> developers lose interest, we end up as orphans.

I have not used Xastir but it is encouraging that it continually gets
high marks. It would be nice if it were developed or migrated to
toolsets like those used by the FLDIGI digital modes software. The
windowing tools and libraries used allow both Linux and Windows
versions to be built from the same sources. You can choose the
operating system that best meshes with the rest of your kit.

73 -- Tim N9PUZ

[Bob Poortinga]

On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Tim N9PUZ <tim.n9puz-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I have not used Xastir but it is encouraging that it continually gets high
> marks. It would be nice if it were developed or migrated to toolsets like
> those used by the FLDIGI digital modes software. The windowing tools and
> libraries used allow both Linux and Windows versions to be built from the
> same sources.

I believe that FLdigi, as well as WSJT by K1JT, which run natively on both
Windows and Linux, are written in Python. Anyone care to port Xastir to
Python?

73 de
--
Bob Poortinga K9SQL
Bloomington, IN US

[Tim N9PUZ]

Bob Poortinga wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Tim N9PUZ
> <tim.n9puz-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> I have not used Xastir but it is encouraging that it
>> continually gets high marks. It would be nice if it were
>> developed or migrated to toolsets like those used by the
>> FLDIGI digital modes software. The windowing tools and
>> libraries used allow both Linux and Windows versions to be
>> built from the same sources.
>
> I believe that FLdigi, as well as WSJT by K1JT, which run
> natively on both Windows and Linux, are written in Python.
> Anyone care to port Xastir to Python?

FLDigi is written in C/C++ using the GCC tools and the Fastlight
('FL') windowing toolkit. I don't know about WSJT. You can develop on
Linux and cross-compile a Win32 version or you can use the MinGW port
of GCC to develop natively on a Windows machine.

73 -- Tim N9PUZ

[Curt, WE7U]

On Fri, 22 Jan 2010, Bob Poortinga wrote:

> Anyone care to port Xastir to Python?

Most likely each of the 15 developers would revolt if the Python
language (or really _any_ language) was mandated.

Xastir is currently written in C. We did a vote (last year?) on
which language we wanted to use for the Xastir re-write: Hands-down
it was C++.

Up in the air yet is which windowing toolkit to use. For the next
go-around we'd like to use something that's cross-platform. We
currently use OpenMotif or Lesstif.

Further discussions regarding any of the above should occur on the
Xastir-Dev or Xastir lists: http://www.xastir.org

--
Curt, WE7U. <http://www.eskimo.com/~archer>
APRS: Where it's at! <http://www.xastir.org>
Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math. - unknown
Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates. - WE7U.
The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"

[Curt, WE7U]

On Fri, 22 Jan 2010, Amateur Radio WB8NUT wrote:

> From what I could see, the information on that site about the various APRS
> programs is out of date.

Most of what's there is contributed by the developers and heavy
users of the various packages. I can keep the Xastir info
up-to-date myself but since that's the only one I use (and
contribute code to). I can't very well do the same for the other
columns.

Feel free to contribute more info for your favorite package. I
typically update the chart within a few days of receiving such info,
with the occasional "I'm too busy" delay.


> It would be nice if there was some kind of code of ethics with developers of
> ANY amateur radio software. You promise that if you ever want to stop
> development, pass-away, give-up, etc., that you will make the source code
> open source and make the generation of the code necessary to use your program
> public.

Notice the "Exit Strategy" row near the top of the chart... That's
so people can make educated choices as to which packages to jump
into, and which might cause the difficulties later if they're
abandoned.

--
Curt, WE7U. <http://www.eskimo.com/~archer>
APRS: Where it's at! <http://www.xastir.org>
Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math. - unknown
Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates. - WE7U.
The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"

[Keith VE7GDH]

Phillip ZL2TZE wrote...

> OK I am not looking for a fight here, but reality is that we are
> going to need a WINDOZE APRS program along the lines of
> UI-View with some improvements sooner than later !!!
> Is there any-one out there working on something similar and if
> so I would be interested in hearing from you off list is fine...

I'm not sure if the subject should be "replacement for UI-View" or
just "looking for a new APRS client". Saying "replacement" is setting
the bar pretty high, but it depends if the analogy is to high jumping or
limbo dancing!

Was there a particular feature you were looking for that was lacking in
UI-View, or are you thinking more of future generations of the operating
systems evolving to the point where UI-View wouldn't run on it?

73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
--
"I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!"

[Bob Burns W9RXR]

At 02:19 PM 1/22/2010, Keith VE7GDH wrote:
>Was there a particular feature you were looking for that was lacking
>in UI-View, or are you thinking more of future generations of the
>operating systems evolving to the point where UI-View wouldn't run on it?

That's my concern, Keith. After some effort, I got UI-View and the
PMapServer to run under Vista. I haven't tried Windows 7 yet. I am
very concerned that future Windows versions will become incompatible
with UI-View and UI-View users will be forced to find something else.
What that "something else" is, I don't know.

As for features, the only concern I have with UI-View is mapping. To
me, an APRS client that does not have pan and zoom maps based on
regularly-updated map data is not worth my time. Luckily, we have the
PMapServer. But, to my way of thinking, an APRS client should have
that capability built-in.

Bob...

[Keith VE7GDH]

Bob W9RXR wrote...

> That's my concern, Keith. After some effort, I got UI-View and the
> PMapServer to run under Vista. I haven't tried Windows 7 yet. I am
> very concerned that future Windows versions will become incompatible
> with UI-View and UI-View users will be forced to find something else.
> What that "something else" is, I don't know.

If some future version of Windows wasn't compatible with UI-View32 v2.03
the user would always have the option of installing an earlier version of
Windows... e.g. XP SP3. The user could make a "slipstream" copy of
the installation disk with all the updates up until the point in time where
Microsoft stopped supporting it. I do realize that not everyone would be
willing to do this, but it would be an option. I don't know when this "future
version" of Windows would be released, but hopefully if it we did get
to the point where the operating system wasn't compatible with the software,
there would be a "replacement" available by them. To be honest, I'm
just not worried about it. MS will be supporting Windows 7 for some years
to come, and hopefully for a few more years after "Windows 8" or
whatever they want to call it comes out, but I'll always have my copies of
Windows XP, one of Vista gathering dust on the shelf and perhaps at some
point in the future, a few copies of Windows 7, but not yet. It's enough time
in the future that I really don't look that far ahead. In the meantime, we
can use and benefit from UI-View. I seem to recall that it took something
like roger G4IDE became a silent key for people to start asking on the
UI-View support list "what are we going to replace UI-View with".
Well, people are still asking that same question... and still using UI-View.

> As for features, the only concern I have with UI-View is mapping. To
> me, an APRS client that does not have pan and zoom maps based on
> regularly-updated map data is not worth my time. Luckily, we have the
> PMapServer. But, to my way of thinking, an APRS client should have
> that capability built-in.

My copies of PM 7 and PM will never "stop working" as will my copies
of Windows XP. I know that "Windows Update" for XP will only be available
for a certain amount of time, so to have a reasonably secure operating
system, it would be worth my time learning how to "slipstream" all of
the updates onto a copy of Windows XP. PMap 8 along with PMapServer
gives me street level mapping of all of North America with pan and zoom.

When I buy a radio, I don't think about what I'll replace it with later.
I just use it and enjoy it and when it's finally worn out, or if one with
new features that I really need is available, I'll get it. In the meantime
I welcome and applaud anyone with the talent and dedication to develop
a new APRS client.

73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
--
"I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!"

[Stephen H. Smith]

On 1/22/2010 3:11 PM, Keith VE7GDH wrote:
> Bob W9RXR wrote...
>
>
> My copies of PM 7 and PM will never "stop working"

Actually that's not entirely true. Precision Mapping depends on an
unlock/activation scheme that is keyed to individual machines and
versions of Windows. You have to present a "magic number" based on
your machine & OS to Undertow's website in order to receive an unlock
code for the program. There have been numerous complaints and posts on
the UIview mailing lists about re-installs of Precision Mapping 6.0
because Undertow has shut down the activation server for earlier
versions, rendering PM6 uninstallable. Apparently a few individuals
have been able to convince Undertow's tech support to generate unlock
codes during phone conversations. However, who knows if this can be
counted on in the future, or even if the company will be around next year.


> as will my copies
> of Windows XP. I know that "Windows Update" for XP will only be available
> for a certain amount of time, so to have a reasonably secure operating
> system, it would be worth my time learning how to "slipstream" all of
> the updates onto a copy of Windows XP.

Actually, Microsoft, so far at least, has continued to make update
patches for old versions of Windows (95, 98 and 2000) available on their
servers -- they just don't issue any new ones.


Actually there is a utility to make slipstreaming rather simple.
"nLite" from

<http://www.nliteos.com/>

will let you slipstream entire service packs, patches, updates and new
drivers into copies of Windows 2000, XP and Win2003 Server. It also
lets you customize hundreds of defaults and then create a new install
disk. You unpack the entire contents of an install CD into a directory
on your hard disk, run nLite, use a pick list to enter service packs and
KB-xxxxx patches to be merged. Youy can even add third-party setup
programs for utilities to be executed automatically on the first run
after install. Nlite then automatically makes an ISO image that can be
used to burn a new bootable install CD or DVD.

I use it about once a month after patch Tuesday to makeup new WinXPSP3
and Win2K3 install disks. It saves hours and hours of time not having
to run endless Windows Update runs on every new system immediately after
initial setup.

Further, it saves a ton of disk space. Every single Windows Update
download is cached on the system, after install, for possible re-install
just in case an emergency system recovery (or driver install) requires
reinstall from the source CD, thus reverting many Windows system files
to earlier versions. Over time, the mass of cached service packs &
patches becomes as large as the installed Windows system itself. Most
of these patches replace existing versions of key Windows files by
overwriting them over and over with newer (supposedly improved)
versions. However the intermediate versions of these patches are not
culled from the ever-inflating archive - every version of the same file
is retained.

When these patches are slipstreamed into the install CD, the latest
version of each file becomes part of the original install. You don't
waste GB's of disk space caching patch archives. You can easily reduce
the installed footprint of a CURRENT XP setup 50% or more by
slipstreaming SP3, IE7 or IE8 and all subsequent patches and fixes into
the initial install. Not to mention that you then don't have to risk
exposing a less-than-maximally-hardened brand-new Windows setup to
the Internet for hours of Windows Update downloads.


------------------------------------------------------------------------

--

Stephen H. Smith wa8lmf (at) aol.com
EchoLink Node: WA8LMF or 14400 [Think bottom of the 2M band]
Skype: WA8LMF
Home Page: http://wa8lmf.net

NEW! Universal HF/VHF/UHF Antenna Mounting System
http://wa8lmf.net/mobile/UniversalAntMountSystem.htm

"APRS 101" Explanation of APRS Path Selection & Digipeating
http://wa8lmf.net/DigiPaths

Updated "Rev H" APRS http://wa8lmf.net/aprs
Symbols Set for UI-View,
UIpoint and APRSplus:

[Keith VE7GDH]

Stephen WA8LMF wrote...

> Actually that's not entirely true. Precision Mapping depends on an
> unlock/activation scheme that is keyed to individual machines and
> versions of Windows...

That's a good point. I've never had an issue getting it registered, so
it's always been a non-issue with me, but if they ever disappeared,
registration would become a problem.

> Actually there is a utility to make slipstreaming rather simple.
> "nLite" from <http://www.nliteos.com/>

Thanks for the info. I've never made up a "slipstream" disk, but
you probably do a lot more installations than I do. I'll do some
reading and try making one up one day.

73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
--
"I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!"

[l***@public.gmane.org]

Have you tried PA7RHM's map server? It works great for "at home" use. I
have saved the static maps for use portable but I quickly changed back
to the live mapserver with an air card.

Ko4Lloyd

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [aprssig] Replacement for UI-View any one
From: Bob Burns W9RXR <w9rxr_-***@public.gmane.org>
Date: Fri, January 22, 2010 3:30 pm
To: TAPR APRS Mailing List <aprssig-***@public.gmane.org>

At 02:19 PM 1/22/2010, Keith VE7GDH wrote:
>Was there a particular feature you were looking for that was lacking
>in UI-View, or are you thinking more of future generations of the
>operating systems evolving to the point where UI-View wouldn't run on it?

That's my concern, Keith. After some effort, I got UI-View and the
PMapServer to run under Vista. I haven't tried Windows 7 yet. I am
very concerned that future Windows versions will become incompatible
with UI-View and UI-View users will be forced to find something else.
What that "something else" is, I don't know.

As for features, the only concern I have with UI-View is mapping. To
me, an APRS client that does not have pan and zoom maps based on
regularly-updated map data is not worth my time. Luckily, we have the
PMapServer. But, to my way of thinking, an APRS client should have
that capability built-in.

Bob...

[Pentti Gronlund]

Bob Burns W9RXR writes:

> That's my concern, Keith. After some effort, I got UI-View and the
> PMapServer to run under Vista. I haven't tried Windows 7 yet. I am
> very concerned that future Windows versions will become incompatible
> with UI-View and UI-View users will be forced to find something else.

Actually, it goes the other way. UI-View will become incompatible
with the future OS versions.

> What that "something else" is, I don't know.

Here lots of people install Ubuntu. It is far easier than it would be
for most of the readers of this list ot learn to drive stick-shift :)

> As for features, the only concern I have with UI-View is mapping. To
> me, an APRS client that does not have pan and zoom maps based on
> regularly-updated map data is not worth my time.

In my opinion UI-View is obsolete. You have my vote for a product that
is updated according to changes to the OS, and also has at least some
support from the author. Preferably a multi-OS-product like there is
D-RATS for communicationg with D-STAR radios.

Benjamin OH3BK
--
Live Reports from the Taxman's Paradise!