Discussion:
APRS Email (better way)?
Robert Bruninga
2012-09-07 20:27:04 UTC
Permalink
I sent an Email via the APRS system today.

Here is how it comes into my email box. Notice there is lots of other
useful APRS information that could have also been included such as:

--------------------------------------
From Bob Bruninga [from the FCC data base]
Located 1 mile E of Annapolis [Based on WB4APR-3 position]
Heard via WA5VHU-1 located 2 miles west of Glen Burnie [based on WA5VHU-1
position]

And if RS0ISS-4* is in the digi path, it could have taken that special
case and said "Via APRS on the International Space Station".
----------------------------------------

Can we add this kind of additional info to this or the other email
engines?
Here is what I actually received:


-----Original APRS EMAIL Message-----
From: OpenAPRS - APRS Message to Email Gateway
[mailto:daemon-rwJt+***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 1:06 PM
To: wb4apr-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: APRS Message from WB4APR-3

testing the APRS email system

----------------------------------------
Date : 2012-09-07 17:06:13 UTC
From : WB4APR-3
To : wb4apr-***@public.gmane.org
IGATE : WA5VHU-1
----------------------------------------


---
OpenAPRS.Net Message to Email Gateway
Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
2012-09-07 20:52:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Bruninga
I sent an Email via the APRS system today.
Here is how it comes into my email box. Notice there is lots of other
--------------------------------------
Post by Robert Bruninga
From Bob Bruninga [from the FCC data base]
APRS, and the EMAIL servers, are used by a whole lot of licensed amateur
operators that aren't registered in the FCC database. QRZ has more, but
even that doesn't have everyone. And to provide such a lookup means
that the data being queried has to be refreshed periodically.
Post by Robert Bruninga
Located 1 mile E of Annapolis [Based on WB4APR-3 position]
Heard via WA5VHU-1 located 2 miles west of Glen Burnie [based on WA5VHU-1
position]
I realize that some of the APRS web sites show such information, but
reverse geocoding doesn't always come free. For that matter, I'd just
as soon see an embedded map showing the location of the sender in
context (not really, see my simplicity comment below). Something like
the image at:

http://aprs.fi/static/?call=WB4APR-3&z=13
Post by Robert Bruninga
And if RS0ISS-4* is in the digi path, it could have taken that special
case and said "Via APRS on the International Space Station".
The e-mail servers are just that, e-mail servers. They're "set and
forget" and I'd suggest they not try to keep up with every special
detection that's out there. If someone wants to know they made it
through the ISS, there's plenty of ways to find that out via APRS-IS and
the various web sites like http://www.ariss.net/

I didn't write nor do I maintain the APRS e-mail servers, but simple is,
in many cases, better, especially for servers designed to run robustly
and unattended.

At least the EMAIL-2 server puts some helpful links in the body for
people that may want to know more. Here's what I received from that server:

Subject: KJ4ERJ-AP: Test via EMAIL-2

From: KJ4ERJ-AP
Test via EMAIL-2

DO NOT REPLY

Find KJ4ERJ-AP athttp://www.jfindu.net/find/KJ4ERJ-AP
Track KJ4ERJ-AP athttp://www.jfindu.net/track/KJ4ERJ-AP

Received from KJ4ERJ-AP via APRS by EMAIL-2
More info athttp://www.aprs-is.net/email.aspx

And there are instructions at the bottom of that last link that describe
how to set up the system so that short responses can be sent via e-mail
which will then be delivered to the originator via an APRS message.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
2012-09-07 20:56:13 UTC
Permalink
Oh yeah, I had a "duh" moment just as I hit send. Since APRS messages
don't contain any position information, in order to do any of the fancy
stuff, the e-mail servers would need to buffer the most recent position
for every station on the planet just in case they send an e-mail through
the server. Either that, or they'd have to hold off the e-mail hoping
that a posit comes through to complete the information in the body.

Sites like aprs.fi make it easy to forget that they represent a
composite, time-accumulated view of APRS backed by a full planetary feed
and a database of APRS-supplied information for every station. Like I
suggested below, a simple, robust, single-function e-mail server would
be my preference. If someone wants more data, they can click a link or
access the information elsewhere.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
Post by Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
Post by Robert Bruninga
I sent an Email via the APRS system today.
Here is how it comes into my email box. Notice there is lots of other
--------------------------------------
Post by Robert Bruninga
From Bob Bruninga [from the FCC data base]
APRS, and the EMAIL servers, are used by a whole lot of licensed
amateur operators that aren't registered in the FCC database. QRZ has
more, but even that doesn't have everyone. And to provide such a
lookup means that the data being queried has to be refreshed
periodically.
Post by Robert Bruninga
Located 1 mile E of Annapolis [Based on WB4APR-3 position]
Heard via WA5VHU-1 located 2 miles west of Glen Burnie [based on WA5VHU-1
position]
I realize that some of the APRS web sites show such information, but
reverse geocoding doesn't always come free. For that matter, I'd
just as soon see an embedded map showing the location of the sender in
context (not really, see my simplicity comment below). Something like
http://aprs.fi/static/?call=WB4APR-3&z=13
Post by Robert Bruninga
And if RS0ISS-4* is in the digi path, it could have taken that special
case and said "Via APRS on the International Space Station".
The e-mail servers are just that, e-mail servers. They're "set and
forget" and I'd suggest they not try to keep up with every special
detection that's out there. If someone wants to know they made it
through the ISS, there's plenty of ways to find that out via APRS-IS
and the various web sites like http://www.ariss.net/
I didn't write nor do I maintain the APRS e-mail servers, but simple
is, in many cases, better, especially for servers designed to run
robustly and unattended.
At least the EMAIL-2 server puts some helpful links in the body for
Subject: KJ4ERJ-AP: Test via EMAIL-2
From: KJ4ERJ-AP
Test via EMAIL-2
DO NOT REPLY
Find KJ4ERJ-AP athttp://www.jfindu.net/find/KJ4ERJ-AP
Track KJ4ERJ-AP athttp://www.jfindu.net/track/KJ4ERJ-AP
Received from KJ4ERJ-AP via APRS by EMAIL-2
More info athttp://www.aprs-is.net/email.aspx
And there are instructions at the bottom of that last link that
describe how to set up the system so that short responses can be sent
via e-mail which will then be delivered to the originator via an APRS
message.
Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
_______________________________________________
aprssig mailing list
https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig
Robert Bruninga
2012-09-07 22:15:59 UTC
Permalink
All of your comments appear to be from the perspective of a clairvoyant
APRS internet user and are overlooking what others who are not so
clairvoyant see when they receive an APRS message via EMAIL. All they see
is an email with about a half a line of sender's text with no other
context. Sure, if they are APRS savvy, they know how it got there and
why.

But if they are APRS savy, they could have been messaged DIRECTLY via APRS
MESSAGE and would not need to get an email. Please look at it from the
perspective of someone receiving these emails that has no clue about APRS
and then you would see what I am talking about.

That is, our APRS Email servers can do a LOT more about making the
received APRS email message make more sense to the general recepient. My
wife for example would make no sense whatsoever out of this current way
the EMAIL servers handle it. Look at these two examples: First, how it
Post by Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
Subject: KJ4ERJ-AP: Test via EMAIL-2
From: KJ4ERJ-AP
Test via EMAIL-2
DO NOT REPLY
Find KJ4ERJ-AP athttp://www.jfindu.net/find/KJ4ERJ-AP
Track KJ4ERJ-AP athttp://www.jfindu.net/track/KJ4ERJ-AP
Received from KJ4ERJ-AP via APRS by EMAIL-2
More info athttp://www.aprs-is.net/email.aspx
To the average reader it is almost all gobbledygook and the actual TEXT is
buried with nothing to highlight it! Whereas I am saying an APRS email
engine can easily do better like this:

-------------------------------------------
Post by Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
Subject: KJ4ERJ-AP: Test via EMAIL-2
This is an APRS message received from a ham radio operator: KJ4ERJ-AP
with the name of Lynn Deffenbaugh (according to the FCC data base)
TEXT: Test via EMAIL-2
DO NOT REPLY, This email is only a forwarding service.
His transmitter was last located 14 miles SE of Denver at 2130z 7 Sept
2012.
Post by Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
His signal was heard via Amateur Radio Station W3XYZ which is 12 miles
north of denver.
Post by Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
See map of KJ4ERJ-AP athttp://www.jfindu.net/find/KJ4ERJ-AP
See Track of KJ4ERJ-AP athttp://www.jfindu.net/track/KJ4ERJ-AP
See map of the relay station W3XYZ http:...............
This email was Received from KJ4ERJ-AP and processed via the APRS
EMAIL-2 server
Post by Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
More info athttp://www.aprs-is.net/email.aspx
--------------------------------------------------

Something like that. Remember, if you are sending to another APRS
operator, it is FAR FAR more efficient to just send the APRS message to
his callsign. The EMAIL server is for sending to ANYONE and since
99.9999% of the rest of the people on the planet do not have a clue about
APRS, then I think the email engines can do a much better job of making
sense of the message.

If any of the data items are NOT KNOWN, then "-not-known-" can be
inserted, though the syntax remains.

Bob, WB4APR

-----Original Message-----
From: aprssig-bounces-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:aprssig-bounces-***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf
Of Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 4:56 PM
To: TAPR APRS Mailing List
Subject: Re: [aprssig] APRS Email (better way)?

Oh yeah, I had a "duh" moment just as I hit send. Since APRS messages
don't contain any position information, in order to do any of the fancy
stuff, the e-mail servers would need to buffer the most recent position
for every station on the planet just in case they send an e-mail through
the server. Either that, or they'd have to hold off the e-mail hoping
that a posit comes through to complete the information in the body.

Sites like aprs.fi make it easy to forget that they represent a
composite, time-accumulated view of APRS backed by a full planetary feed
and a database of APRS-supplied information for every station. Like I
suggested below, a simple, robust, single-function e-mail server would
be my preference. If someone wants more data, they can click a link or
access the information elsewhere.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
Post by Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
Post by Robert Bruninga
I sent an Email via the APRS system today.
Here is how it comes into my email box. Notice there is lots of other
--------------------------------------
Post by Robert Bruninga
From Bob Bruninga [from the FCC data base]
APRS, and the EMAIL servers, are used by a whole lot of licensed
amateur operators that aren't registered in the FCC database. QRZ has
more, but even that doesn't have everyone. And to provide such a
lookup means that the data being queried has to be refreshed
periodically.
Post by Robert Bruninga
Located 1 mile E of Annapolis [Based on WB4APR-3 position]
Heard via WA5VHU-1 located 2 miles west of Glen Burnie [based on WA5VHU-1
position]
I realize that some of the APRS web sites show such information, but
reverse geocoding doesn't always come free. For that matter, I'd
just as soon see an embedded map showing the location of the sender in
context (not really, see my simplicity comment below). Something like
http://aprs.fi/static/?call=WB4APR-3&z=13
Post by Robert Bruninga
And if RS0ISS-4* is in the digi path, it could have taken that special
case and said "Via APRS on the International Space Station".
The e-mail servers are just that, e-mail servers. They're "set and
forget" and I'd suggest they not try to keep up with every special
detection that's out there. If someone wants to know they made it
through the ISS, there's plenty of ways to find that out via APRS-IS
and the various web sites like http://www.ariss.net/
I didn't write nor do I maintain the APRS e-mail servers, but simple
is, in many cases, better, especially for servers designed to run
robustly and unattended.
At least the EMAIL-2 server puts some helpful links in the body for
Subject: KJ4ERJ-AP: Test via EMAIL-2
From: KJ4ERJ-AP
Test via EMAIL-2
DO NOT REPLY
Find KJ4ERJ-AP athttp://www.jfindu.net/find/KJ4ERJ-AP
Track KJ4ERJ-AP athttp://www.jfindu.net/track/KJ4ERJ-AP
Received from KJ4ERJ-AP via APRS by EMAIL-2
More info athttp://www.aprs-is.net/email.aspx
And there are instructions at the bottom of that last link that
describe how to set up the system so that short responses can be sent
via e-mail which will then be delivered to the originator via an APRS
message.
Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
_______________________________________________
aprssig mailing list
https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig
Greg D
2012-09-08 21:12:25 UTC
Permalink
Hi Bob, et al,

There are a couple of other dimensions to the APRS / Email gateways to
consider...

1. The destination "email" may in fact be pretty limited itself. One can
email to a phone's Text Message service if you know their phone # and
which provider they have (e.g. 5305551212-aj8q72DIn+o76DMq09+***@public.gmane.org for T-Mobile or
9165551212-EZ0Sl//K/***@public.gmane.org for AT&T). The extra information often doesn't
come through very well, and will take multiple messages to deliver (if
even possible with that gateway).

2. Each of the email gateways - there are three that I know of - have a
different output format. Besides the additional information presented,
the message text itself can be either in the message Body or message
Subject. That maps better or worse (or is it worse or better?) to what
people expect to see on the other end, and as you observed, this can be
very confusing.

3. One of the message gateways allows for replies (Winlink). Handling of
replies in an html-rich world is fraught with peril when they're going
back via APRS to something like a TH-D7.

So, why this email? A request: I would like to have a minimum standard
for the APRS-email gateways that considers these compatibility aspects
first, yet allows for the additional information and personalization
that innovation can supply. The most important part of this is where to
put the message itself. You have a lot of experience with the various
message displays and how messages map to them. Is this a good place to
start, or should we look at the email destination side first?

Greg KO6TH
Post by Robert Bruninga
All of your comments appear to be from the perspective of a clairvoyant
APRS internet user and are overlooking what others who are not so
clairvoyant see when they receive an APRS message via EMAIL. All they see
is an email with about a half a line of sender's text with no other
context. Sure, if they are APRS savvy, they know how it got there and
why.
But if they are APRS savy, they could have been messaged DIRECTLY via APRS
MESSAGE and would not need to get an email. Please look at it from the
perspective of someone receiving these emails that has no clue about APRS
and then you would see what I am talking about.
That is, our APRS Email servers can do a LOT more about making the
received APRS email message make more sense to the general recepient. My
wife for example would make no sense whatsoever out of this current way
the EMAIL servers handle it. Look at these two examples: First, how it
Post by Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
Subject: KJ4ERJ-AP: Test via EMAIL-2
From: KJ4ERJ-AP
Test via EMAIL-2
DO NOT REPLY
Find KJ4ERJ-AP athttp://www.jfindu.net/find/KJ4ERJ-AP
Track KJ4ERJ-AP athttp://www.jfindu.net/track/KJ4ERJ-AP
Received from KJ4ERJ-AP via APRS by EMAIL-2
More info athttp://www.aprs-is.net/email.aspx
To the average reader it is almost all gobbledygook and the actual TEXT is
buried with nothing to highlight it! Whereas I am saying an APRS email
-------------------------------------------
Post by Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
Subject: KJ4ERJ-AP: Test via EMAIL-2
This is an APRS message received from a ham radio operator: KJ4ERJ-AP
with the name of Lynn Deffenbaugh (according to the FCC data base)
TEXT: Test via EMAIL-2
DO NOT REPLY, This email is only a forwarding service.
His transmitter was last located 14 miles SE of Denver at 2130z 7 Sept
2012.
Post by Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
His signal was heard via Amateur Radio Station W3XYZ which is 12 miles
north of denver.
Post by Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
See map of KJ4ERJ-AP athttp://www.jfindu.net/find/KJ4ERJ-AP
See Track of KJ4ERJ-AP athttp://www.jfindu.net/track/KJ4ERJ-AP
See map of the relay station W3XYZ http:...............
This email was Received from KJ4ERJ-AP and processed via the APRS
EMAIL-2 server
Post by Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
More info athttp://www.aprs-is.net/email.aspx
--------------------------------------------------
Something like that. Remember, if you are sending to another APRS
operator, it is FAR FAR more efficient to just send the APRS message to
his callsign. The EMAIL server is for sending to ANYONE and since
99.9999% of the rest of the people on the planet do not have a clue about
APRS, then I think the email engines can do a much better job of making
sense of the message.
If any of the data items are NOT KNOWN, then "-not-known-" can be
inserted, though the syntax remains.
Bob, WB4APR
-----Original Message-----
Of Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 4:56 PM
To: TAPR APRS Mailing List
Subject: Re: [aprssig] APRS Email (better way)?
Oh yeah, I had a "duh" moment just as I hit send. Since APRS messages
don't contain any position information, in order to do any of the fancy
stuff, the e-mail servers would need to buffer the most recent position
for every station on the planet just in case they send an e-mail through
the server. Either that, or they'd have to hold off the e-mail hoping
that a posit comes through to complete the information in the body.
Sites like aprs.fi make it easy to forget that they represent a
composite, time-accumulated view of APRS backed by a full planetary feed
and a database of APRS-supplied information for every station. Like I
suggested below, a simple, robust, single-function e-mail server would
be my preference. If someone wants more data, they can click a link or
access the information elsewhere.
Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
Post by Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
Post by Robert Bruninga
I sent an Email via the APRS system today.
Here is how it comes into my email box. Notice there is lots of other
--------------------------------------
Post by Robert Bruninga
From Bob Bruninga [from the FCC data base]
APRS, and the EMAIL servers, are used by a whole lot of licensed
amateur operators that aren't registered in the FCC database. QRZ has
more, but even that doesn't have everyone. And to provide such a
lookup means that the data being queried has to be refreshed
periodically.
Post by Robert Bruninga
Located 1 mile E of Annapolis [Based on WB4APR-3 position]
Heard via WA5VHU-1 located 2 miles west of Glen Burnie [based on WA5VHU-1
position]
I realize that some of the APRS web sites show such information, but
reverse geocoding doesn't always come free. For that matter, I'd
just as soon see an embedded map showing the location of the sender in
context (not really, see my simplicity comment below). Something like
http://aprs.fi/static/?call=WB4APR-3&z=13
Post by Robert Bruninga
And if RS0ISS-4* is in the digi path, it could have taken that special
case and said "Via APRS on the International Space Station".
The e-mail servers are just that, e-mail servers. They're "set and
forget" and I'd suggest they not try to keep up with every special
detection that's out there. If someone wants to know they made it
through the ISS, there's plenty of ways to find that out via APRS-IS
and the various web sites like http://www.ariss.net/
I didn't write nor do I maintain the APRS e-mail servers, but simple
is, in many cases, better, especially for servers designed to run
robustly and unattended.
At least the EMAIL-2 server puts some helpful links in the body for
Subject: KJ4ERJ-AP: Test via EMAIL-2
From: KJ4ERJ-AP
Test via EMAIL-2
DO NOT REPLY
Find KJ4ERJ-AP athttp://www.jfindu.net/find/KJ4ERJ-AP
Track KJ4ERJ-AP athttp://www.jfindu.net/track/KJ4ERJ-AP
Received from KJ4ERJ-AP via APRS by EMAIL-2
More info athttp://www.aprs-is.net/email.aspx
And there are instructions at the bottom of that last link that
describe how to set up the system so that short responses can be sent
via e-mail which will then be delivered to the originator via an APRS
message.
Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
_______________________________________________
aprssig mailing list
https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig
_______________________________________________
aprssig mailing list
https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig
_______________________________________________
aprssig mailing list
https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig
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