Discussion:
EMERGENCY test...
Keith VE7GDH
2014-08-08 14:31:08 UTC
Permalink
A few times over the last week or so, a few emergency beacons have been
received from a VE7HMW-9, but the operator says he didn't have it set to
emergency. The emergency beacon was decoded by an FTM-400D and also
showed at findu.com, but not on aprs.fi.

For a test, I will be sending several emergency beacons from VE7GDH-9 in
a few minutes with a status text of...

"This is a test - NOT an emergency."
--
73 Keith VE7GDH
Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
2014-08-08 14:51:03 UTC
Permalink
VE7HMW-9's emergency beacons are showing up at aprs.fi's raw packets.
However, they're flagged with issues, so they aren't processed into his
database.

I suspect that there's a digipeater or IGate in the area that has
PASSALL enabled and is gating invalid packets to the APRS-IS causing the
Mic-E bits (mbits: below) to be 000.

2014-08-07 19:36:26 EDT: *VE7HMW-9
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VE7HMW-9>*>461QTP,VE7DID*
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VE7DID>,WIDE3-3,qAR,UBC39
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=UBC39>:`2Txm"Q>/]"3m}2004 BUICK REGAL= *[Rate
limited (< 5 sec)]*
type: location
format: mice
srccallsign: VE7HMW-9
dstcallsign: 461QTP
latitude: 46.19 °
longitude: -122.9486666666667 °
course: 253 °
speed: 18.52 km/h
altitude: -5 m
symboltable: /
symbolcode: >
mbits: 000
posresolution: 18.52 m
posambiguity: 0
comment: ]2004 BUICK REGAL=

2014-08-07 19:38:26 EDT: *VE7HMW-9
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VE7HMW-9>*>461QTP,VE7DID*
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VE7DID>,WIDE3-2,qAR,VA7REF-1
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VA7REF-1>:`2Txm"Q>/]"3m}2004 BUICK REGAL=
*[Location changes too fast (adaptive limit)]*
type: location
format: mice
srccallsign: VE7HMW-9
dstcallsign: 461QTP
latitude: 46.19 °
longitude: -122.9486666666667 °
course: 253 °
speed: 18.52 km/h
altitude: -5 m
symboltable: /
symbolcode: >
mbits: 000
posresolution: 18.52 m
posambiguity: 0
comment: ]2004 BUICK REGAL=

And then there's this interestingly corrupted packet:

2014-08-07 19:38:28 EDT: *VE7HMW-9
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VE7HMW-9>*>4Y1PYW,WIDE1-1,qAR,VA7REF-1 <http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VA7REF-1>:EGAL=
*[Unsupported packet format]*
srccallsign: VE7HMW-9
dstcallsign: 4Y1PYW

So it appears to this outside observer that there's something going on
between the RF environment and the APRS-IS. But if you actually
received the Emergency packets on your radio (and it wasn't a
third-party packet), then it would seem to indicate a bad digipeat
rather than a bad Igate.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
Post by Keith VE7GDH
A few times over the last week or so, a few emergency beacons have
been received from a VE7HMW-9, but the operator says he didn't have it
set to emergency. The emergency beacon was decoded by an FTM-400D and
also showed at findu.com, but not on aprs.fi.
For a test, I will be sending several emergency beacons from VE7GDH-9
in a few minutes with a status text of...
"This is a test - NOT an emergency."
Keith VE7GDH
2014-08-08 16:23:31 UTC
Permalink
Lynn KJ4ERJ wrote...
Post by Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
I suspect that there's a digipeater or IGate in the area that
has PASSALL enabled and is gating invalid packets to the APRS-IS
causing the Mic-E bits (mbits: below) to be 000.
That is certainly a possibility. As I heard it on RF, it would suggest a
digi rather than an IGate. There was one bogus position that placed
VE7HMW-9 about 330 km to the south of his actual position. That could
have been bogus info from the GPS or a packet corrupted after
transmission, would require PASSALL in a TNC or something odd going on
in the IGate.
Post by Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
But if you actually received the Emergency packets on your radio
I've heard the emergency beacons on RF, but not direct.

I've finished my own on-air emergency beacons with "This is a test - NOT
an emergency." embedded in them.

I'll keep watching but will assume emergency beacons from VE7HMW-9 are
bogus.
--
73 Keith VE7GDH
UI-View32
www.ui-view.net
Curt, WE7U
2014-08-08 15:25:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keith VE7GDH
A few times over the last week or so, a few emergency beacons have been
received from a VE7HMW-9, but the operator says he didn't have it set to
emergency. The emergency beacon was decoded by an FTM-400D and also showed at
findu.com, but not on aprs.fi.
For a test, I will be sending several emergency beacons from VE7GDH-9 in a
few minutes with a status text of...
"This is a test - NOT an emergency."
Saw an alert from your station this morning on Xastir here at work (internet-connected, not radio).

We may have a digi or fill-in in the area that is corrupting packets, as Lynn mentioned. I sometimes see emergency packets or RDF vectors appear on my map because of corrupted packets.
--
Curt, WE7U. http://wetnet.net/~we7u
APRS Client Capabilities: http://wetnet.net/~we7u/aprs_capabilities.html
Keith VE7GDH
2014-08-08 16:26:35 UTC
Permalink
Curt WE7U wrote...
Post by Curt, WE7U
Saw an alert from your station this morning on Xastir here
at work (internet-connected, not radio).
I sweated a bit before sending those tests, but thought that it was
justified and useful as there had been more than one emergency beacon
received from one station in a little over one week and the user was
sure his D710 wasn't sending an emergency beacon.
Post by Curt, WE7U
We may have a digi or fill-in in the area that is corrupting
packets, as Lynn mentioned. I sometimes see emergency packets
or RDF vectors appear on my map because of corrupted packets.
It is certainly a possibility that the beacons are being corrupted after
transmission. There was a bogus position yesterday about the same time
that would have placed VE7HMW-9 about 330 km south of his actual
position. There's a lot of data to go through as it is transmitting at a
fairly rapid rate and with a (sigh) four hop path, leading to lots of dupes.
--
73 Keith VE7GDH
UI-View32
www.ui-view.net
andrewemt
2014-08-08 15:51:54 UTC
Permalink
It is interesting that VE7HMW-9's packet tocall (destination) callsign starts with all digits instead of letters, indicating the Mic-E status bits are all zero. So, either someone is "fixing" his tocall (maybe because it doesn't look like a valid callsign, though this is worse), or he actually is sending emergency. His latitude does look a little south for a Canadian, but not unreasonably so for a mobile, considering where his home fixed station is. You'd think that if those three bits got mangled then more would have been mangled to give him a totally ludicrous position instead of one relatively close to home.

Just my $.02.

Andrew, KA2DDO




Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)" <ldeffenb-***@public.gmane.org>
Date:08/08/2014 10:51 (GMT-05:00)
To: TAPR APRS Mailing List <aprssig-***@public.gmane.org>
Cc:
Subject: Re: [aprssig] EMERGENCY test...

VE7HMW-9's emergency beacons are showing up at aprs.fi's raw packets.
However, they're flagged with issues, so they aren't processed into his
database.

I suspect that there's a digipeater or IGate in the area that has
PASSALL enabled and is gating invalid packets to the APRS-IS causing the
Mic-E bits (mbits: below) to be 000.

2014-08-07 19:36:26 EDT: *VE7HMW-9
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VE7HMW-9>*>461QTP,VE7DID*
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VE7DID>,WIDE3-3,qAR,UBC39
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=UBC39>:`2Txm"Q>/]"3m}2004 BUICK REGAL= *[Rate
limited (< 5 sec)]*
type: location
format: mice
srccallsign: VE7HMW-9
dstcallsign: 461QTP
latitude: 46.19 °
longitude: -122.9486666666667 °
course: 253 °
speed: 18.52 km/h
altitude: -5 m
symboltable: /
symbolcode: >
mbits: 000
posresolution: 18.52 m
posambiguity: 0
comment: ]2004 BUICK REGAL=

2014-08-07 19:38:26 EDT: *VE7HMW-9
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VE7HMW-9>*>461QTP,VE7DID*
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VE7DID>,WIDE3-2,qAR,VA7REF-1
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VA7REF-1>:`2Txm"Q>/]"3m}2004 BUICK REGAL=
*[Location changes too fast (adaptive limit)]*
type: location
format: mice
srccallsign: VE7HMW-9
dstcallsign: 461QTP
latitude: 46.19 °
longitude: -122.9486666666667 °
course: 253 °
speed: 18.52 km/h
altitude: -5 m
symboltable: /
symbolcode: >
mbits: 000
posresolution: 18.52 m
posambiguity: 0
comment: ]2004 BUICK REGAL=

And then there's this interestingly corrupted packet:

2014-08-07 19:38:28 EDT: *VE7HMW-9
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VE7HMW-9>*>4Y1PYW,WIDE1-1,qAR,VA7REF-1 <http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VA7REF-1>:EGAL=
*[Unsupported packet format]*
srccallsign: VE7HMW-9
dstcallsign: 4Y1PYW

So it appears to this outside observer that there's something going on
between the RF environment and the APRS-IS. But if you actually
received the Emergency packets on your radio (and it wasn't a
third-party packet), then it would seem to indicate a bad digipeat
rather than a bad Igate.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
Post by Keith VE7GDH
A few times over the last week or so, a few emergency beacons have
been received from a VE7HMW-9, but the operator says he didn't have it
set to emergency. The emergency beacon was decoded by an FTM-400D and
also showed at findu.com, but not on aprs.fi.
For a test, I will be sending several emergency beacons from VE7GDH-9
in a few minutes with a status text of...
"This is a test - NOT an emergency."
Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
2014-08-08 16:07:01 UTC
Permalink
It's only a single-bit hit between his normal mbits: 010 and mbits: 000
for Emergency.

I also looked at the lat/lons and given the number of warnings coming
out of aprs.fi, I decided that it was a wasted effort.

Since the ToCall is the first thing transmitted, it even may be that he
doesn't have a long enough preamble to satisfy something along the RF
chain resulting in some garbling of the early bits of the transmission.

Only ears on the air in his vicinity will truly answer our curiosities.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
Post by andrewemt
It is interesting that VE7HMW-9's packet tocall (destination) callsign
starts with all digits instead of letters, indicating the Mic-E status
bits are all zero. So, either someone is "fixing" his tocall (maybe
because it doesn't look like a valid callsign, though this is worse),
or he actually is sending emergency. His latitude does look a little
south for a Canadian, but not unreasonably so for a mobile,
considering where his home fixed station is. You'd think that if those
three bits got mangled then more would have been mangled to give him a
totally ludicrous position instead of one relatively close to home.
Just my $.02.
Andrew, KA2DDO
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
Date:08/08/2014 10:51 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [aprssig] EMERGENCY test...
VE7HMW-9's emergency beacons are showing up at aprs.fi's raw packets.
However, they're flagged with issues, so they aren't processed into
his database.
I suspect that there's a digipeater or IGate in the area that has
PASSALL enabled and is gating invalid packets to the APRS-IS causing
the Mic-E bits (mbits: below) to be 000.
2014-08-07 19:36:26 EDT: *VE7HMW-9
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VE7HMW-9>*>461QTP,VE7DID*
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VE7DID>,WIDE3-3,qAR,UBC39
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=UBC39>:`2Txm"Q>/]"3m}2004 BUICK REGAL=
*[Rate limited (< 5 sec)]*
type: location
format: mice
srccallsign: VE7HMW-9
dstcallsign: 461QTP
latitude: 46.19 °
longitude: -122.9486666666667 °
course: 253 °
speed: 18.52 km/h
altitude: -5 m
symboltable: /
symbolcode: >
mbits: 000
posresolution: 18.52 m
posambiguity: 0
comment: ]2004 BUICK REGAL=
2014-08-07 19:38:26 EDT: *VE7HMW-9
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VE7HMW-9>*>461QTP,VE7DID*
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VE7DID>,WIDE3-2,qAR,VA7REF-1
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VA7REF-1>:`2Txm"Q>/]"3m}2004 BUICK REGAL=
*[Location changes too fast (adaptive limit)]*
type: location
format: mice
srccallsign: VE7HMW-9
dstcallsign: 461QTP
latitude: 46.19 °
longitude: -122.9486666666667 °
course: 253 °
speed: 18.52 km/h
altitude: -5 m
symboltable: /
symbolcode: >
mbits: 000
posresolution: 18.52 m
posambiguity: 0
comment: ]2004 BUICK REGAL=
2014-08-07 19:38:28 EDT: *VE7HMW-9
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VE7HMW-9>*>4Y1PYW,WIDE1-1,qAR,VA7REF-1
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VA7REF-1>:EGAL= *[Unsupported
packet format]*
srccallsign: VE7HMW-9
dstcallsign: 4Y1PYW
So it appears to this outside observer that there's something going on
between the RF environment and the APRS-IS. But if you actually
received the Emergency packets on your radio (and it wasn't a
third-party packet), then it would seem to indicate a bad digipeat
rather than a bad Igate.
Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
Post by Keith VE7GDH
A few times over the last week or so, a few emergency beacons have
been received from a VE7HMW-9, but the operator says he didn't have
it set to emergency. The emergency beacon was decoded by an FTM-400D
and also showed at findu.com, but not on aprs.fi.
For a test, I will be sending several emergency beacons from VE7GDH-9
in a few minutes with a status text of...
"This is a test - NOT an emergency."
_______________________________________________
aprssig mailing list
http://www.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/aprssig
andrewemt
2014-08-08 16:25:17 UTC
Permalink
Hmm... like maybe someone has too short of a TxDelay setting, such that his oscillators are still slewing when he (or a digi) is transmitting?


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)" <ldeffenb-***@public.gmane.org>
Date:08/08/2014 12:07 (GMT-05:00)
To: TAPR APRS Mailing List <aprssig-***@public.gmane.org>
Cc:
Subject: Re: [aprssig] EMERGENCY test...

It's only a single-bit hit between his normal mbits: 010 and mbits: 000
for Emergency.

I also looked at the lat/lons and given the number of warnings coming
out of aprs.fi, I decided that it was a wasted effort.

Since the ToCall is the first thing transmitted, it even may be that he
doesn't have a long enough preamble to satisfy something along the RF
chain resulting in some garbling of the early bits of the transmission.

Only ears on the air in his vicinity will truly answer our curiosities.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
Post by andrewemt
It is interesting that VE7HMW-9's packet tocall (destination) callsign
starts with all digits instead of letters, indicating the Mic-E status
bits are all zero. So, either someone is "fixing" his tocall (maybe
because it doesn't look like a valid callsign, though this is worse),
or he actually is sending emergency. His latitude does look a little
south for a Canadian, but not unreasonably so for a mobile,
considering where his home fixed station is. You'd think that if those
three bits got mangled then more would have been mangled to give him a
totally ludicrous position instead of one relatively close to home.
Just my $.02.
Andrew, KA2DDO
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
Date:08/08/2014 10:51 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [aprssig] EMERGENCY test...
VE7HMW-9's emergency beacons are showing up at aprs.fi's raw packets.
However, they're flagged with issues, so they aren't processed into
his database.
I suspect that there's a digipeater or IGate in the area that has
PASSALL enabled and is gating invalid packets to the APRS-IS causing
the Mic-E bits (mbits: below) to be 000.
2014-08-07 19:36:26 EDT: *VE7HMW-9
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VE7HMW-9>*>461QTP,VE7DID*
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VE7DID>,WIDE3-3,qAR,UBC39
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=UBC39>:`2Txm"Q>/]"3m}2004 BUICK REGAL=
*[Rate limited (< 5 sec)]*
type: location
format: mice
srccallsign: VE7HMW-9
dstcallsign: 461QTP
latitude: 46.19 °
longitude: -122.9486666666667 °
course: 253 °
speed: 18.52 km/h
altitude: -5 m
symboltable: /
symbolcode: >
mbits: 000
posresolution: 18.52 m
posambiguity: 0
comment: ]2004 BUICK REGAL=
2014-08-07 19:38:26 EDT: *VE7HMW-9
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VE7HMW-9>*>461QTP,VE7DID*
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VE7DID>,WIDE3-2,qAR,VA7REF-1
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VA7REF-1>:`2Txm"Q>/]"3m}2004 BUICK REGAL=
*[Location changes too fast (adaptive limit)]*
type: location
format: mice
srccallsign: VE7HMW-9
dstcallsign: 461QTP
latitude: 46.19 °
longitude: -122.9486666666667 °
course: 253 °
speed: 18.52 km/h
altitude: -5 m
symboltable: /
symbolcode: >
mbits: 000
posresolution: 18.52 m
posambiguity: 0
comment: ]2004 BUICK REGAL=
2014-08-07 19:38:28 EDT: *VE7HMW-9
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VE7HMW-9>*>4Y1PYW,WIDE1-1,qAR,VA7REF-1
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VA7REF-1>:EGAL= *[Unsupported
packet format]*
srccallsign: VE7HMW-9
dstcallsign: 4Y1PYW
So it appears to this outside observer that there's something going on
between the RF environment and the APRS-IS. But if you actually
received the Emergency packets on your radio (and it wasn't a
third-party packet), then it would seem to indicate a bad digipeat
rather than a bad Igate.
Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
Post by Keith VE7GDH
A few times over the last week or so, a few emergency beacons have
been received from a VE7HMW-9, but the operator says he didn't have
it set to emergency. The emergency beacon was decoded by an FTM-400D
and also showed at findu.com, but not on aprs.fi.
For a test, I will be sending several emergency beacons from VE7GDH-9
in a few minutes with a status text of...
"This is a test - NOT an emergency."
_______________________________________________
aprssig mailing list
http://www.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/aprssig
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