Echolink Expert needed

[Robert Bruninga]

For the Appalachian Trail Event this weekend,
We need to enlist an Echolink expert...

We have a CONFERENCE node lined up, but need something written
up ASAP to tell newbee operators out on their mountain tops to
call into that conference. Also, most of them have no idea how
to find out what echolink nodes are nearby.

Again, a complete failure over the last 8 years to get APRS and
Echoink seamlessly integrated... Oh well.. Every Echolink node
is supposed to show up on APRS maps with their freq, and other
info... They arent...

Thank heavens we are not trying to do emergency comms...

Bob, WB4APR

[Kent Hufford]

"Echolink node is supposed to show up on APRS maps with their freq." WHO is
supposed to do this?


Kent
KQ4KK

-----Original Message-----
From: aprssig-bounces-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:aprssig-bounces-***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf
Of Robert Bruninga
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 1:42 PM
To: 'TAPR APRS Mailing List'
Subject: [aprssig] Echolink Expert needed

For the Appalachian Trail Event this weekend,
We need to enlist an Echolink expert...

We have a CONFERENCE node lined up, but need something written
up ASAP to tell newbee operators out on their mountain tops to
call into that conference. Also, most of them have no idea how
to find out what echolink nodes are nearby.

Again, a complete failure over the last 8 years to get APRS and
Echoink seamlessly integrated... Oh well.. Every Echolink node
is supposed to show up on APRS maps with their freq, and other
info... They arent...

Thank heavens we are not trying to do emergency comms...

Bob, WB4APR

[Stephen H. Smith]

Post by Kent Hufford
"Echolink node is supposed to show up on APRS maps with their freq." WHO is
supposed to do this?
Kent
KQ4KK

From the help system for the "RF Info" tab of the Echolink "Sysop
Settings..." dialog:

===== PASTE QUOTE ======

"The RF Info tab is used to provide information about your link which
may be helpful to nearby stations trying to locate it. EchoLink
includes an implementation of the Automatic Voice Reporting System
(AVRS), which uses the APRS® network and protocols to disseminate
real-time information about VoIP links such as EchoLink nodes. This
feature was developed in collaboration with Bob Bruninga, WB4APR. The
program also provides a mechanism for collecting and displaying this
information on the Web, as an adjunct to APRS.

If you wish to disseminate basic information about your simplex link, or
the repeater to which your repeater link is connected, you can enter it
here. By default, the information is transmitted to a central database
on the Internet upon startup, and again each time a station connects or
disconnects from your link. This information will be displayable and
searchable on the EchoLink Web site.

If a packet TNC is connected to your computer, and the APRS option is
enabled, the same information will be sent periodically to local users
using APRS. Mobile stations equipped with APRS often have alphanumeric
displays which will show the location and status of your node, if they
in range of your APRS transmission or a nearby digipeater. Future APRS
software may include the ability to allow a mobile station to send a
general query for local EchoLink activity."

===== END QUOTE ====

This interface shows signs of being a one-time-and-then-forgotten
addition to Echolink.

1) The help article cites the old.old .MIL domain adddress of Bob's
site for more APRS info - has never been updated.

2) The configuration screen for the "RF Info" tab of the "Sysop
Settings..." dialog has the hardwired path choice of RELAY or WIDE or
RELAY,WIDE or DIRECT only from a pulldown list box. Nothing else can be
entered. No acknowledgment of the new n-N pathing whatsovever.

3) The largest deficiency is that this scheme requires the full use
of a second serial port (the first one is used for keying the Echolink
radio and sensing it's squelch/COR) on the PC, and a DEDICATED
traditional command-mode TNC & radio to implement.

Several years ago, I wrote a lengthy message to the Echolink author
urging him to interface to the AGW Packet Engine rather than the direct
hardware command interface of a classic TNC. This would be a far
better approach since it would allow you to share a single TNC/radio
with multiple applications ( i.e. run UIview, APRSplus, WinAPRS, UI
Traffic Analysis, APRS Emergency, UI Instant Messenger, etc.)
simultanously with the Echolink status reporting

I have never heard a thing back.

Further, there has not been a new version or update to Echolink for
about 2 years now. I wonder if the program is even being developed any
more.


WA8LMF -- EchoLink Node: WA8LMF or node # 14400

[Easy to remember -- think bottom of the 2M band]


------------------------------------------------------------------------

--

Stephen H. Smith wa8lmf (at) aol.com
Skype: WA8LMF
Home Page: http://wa8lmf.net

JavAPRS Filter Port 14580 Guide
http://wa8lmf.net/aprs/JAVaprsFilters.htm

"APRS 101" Explanation of APRS Path Selection & Digipeating
http://wa8lmf.net/DigiPaths

Updated "Rev H" APRS http://wa8lmf.net/aprs
Symbols Set for UI-View,
UIpoint and APRSplus:

[Robert Bruninga]

Stephen...

Yes, it implements it for a locl TNC, but it also injects a copy
into the APRS-IS. This is where we expected the majority of
applications. Then it is a NO-HARDWARE solution.

All that has to be done is the local IGATE to add the object
name of the local EchoLink nodes to his pass-to-RF list and
done...

Or at least that is how I thought it should work. If it is not
working tht way, the let me know and I will try to get it
fixed.. Your feedback below is PERFECT! Thanks for the help.

Bob, Wb4APR

Post by Stephen H. Smith
From the help system for the "RF Info" tab of the Echolink
===== PASTE QUOTE ======
"The RF Info tab is used to provide information about your
link which may be helpful to nearby stations trying to locate
it. EchoLink includes an implementation of the Automatic
Voice Reporting System (AVRS), which uses the APRSR network
and protocols to disseminate real-time information about VoIP
links such as EchoLink nodes. This feature was developed in
collaboration with Bob Bruninga, WB4APR. The program also
provides a mechanism for collecting and displaying this
information on the Web, as an adjunct to APRS.
If you wish to disseminate basic information about your
simplex link, or the repeater to which your repeater link is
connected, you can enter it here. By default, the
information is transmitted to a central database on the
Internet upon startup, and again each time a station connects
or disconnects from your link. This information will be
displayable and searchable on the EchoLink Web site.
If a packet TNC is connected to your computer, and the APRS
option is enabled, the same information will be sent
periodically to local users using APRS. Mobile stations
equipped with APRS often have alphanumeric displays which
will show the location and status of your node, if they in
range of your APRS transmission or a nearby digipeater.
Future APRS software may include the ability to allow a
mobile station to send a general query for local EchoLink

activity."

Post by Stephen H. Smith
===== END QUOTE ====
This interface shows signs of being a
one-time-and-then-forgotten addition to Echolink.
1) The help article cites the old.old .MIL domain
adddress of Bob's site for more APRS info - has never been

updated.

Post by Stephen H. Smith
2) The configuration screen for the "RF Info" tab of the
"Sysop Settings..." dialog has the hardwired path choice of
RELAY or WIDE or RELAY,WIDE or DIRECT only from a pulldown
list box. Nothing else can be entered. No acknowledgment of
the new n-N pathing whatsovever.
3) The largest deficiency is that this scheme requires
the full use of a second serial port (the first one is used
for keying the Echolink radio and sensing it's squelch/COR)
on the PC, and a DEDICATED traditional command-mode TNC &
radio to implement.
Several years ago, I wrote a lengthy message to the Echolink
author urging him to interface to the AGW Packet Engine
rather than the direct hardware command interface of a
classic TNC. This would be a far better approach since it
would allow you to share a single TNC/radio with multiple
applications ( i.e. run UIview, APRSplus, WinAPRS, UI Traffic
Analysis, APRS Emergency, UI Instant Messenger, etc.)
simultanously with the Echolink status reporting
I have never heard a thing back.
Further, there has not been a new version or update to
Echolink for about 2 years now. I wonder if the program is
even being developed any more.
WA8LMF -- EchoLink Node: WA8LMF or node # 14400
[Easy to remember -- think bottom of the 2M band]
________________________________
--
Stephen H. Smith wa8lmf (at) aol.com
Skype: WA8LMF
Home Page: http://wa8lmf.net
JavAPRS Filter Port 14580 Guide
http://wa8lmf.net/aprs/JAVaprsFilters.htm
"APRS 101" Explanation of APRS Path Selection & Digipeating
http://wa8lmf.net/DigiPaths
Updated "Rev H" APRS http://wa8lmf.net/aprs
Symbols Set for UI-View,

[Stephen H. Smith]

Post by Robert Bruninga
Stephen...
Yes, it implements it for a locl TNC, but it also injects a copy
into the APRS-IS. This is where we expected the majority of
applications. Then it is a NO-HARDWARE solution.
All that has to be done is the local IGATE to add the object
name of the local EchoLink nodes to his pass-to-RF list and
done...
Or at least that is how I thought it should work. If it is not
working tht way, the let me know and I will try to get it
fixed.. Your feedback below is PERFECT! Thanks for the help.
Bob, Wb4APR

It's not putting anything into the APRS-IS at all. The configuration
dialog for APRS in Echolink looks like this:

<Loading Image...>

Note that there is absolutely no provision for specifying an APRS-IS
server address or login. The APRS support is only RF-based.

The only Internet activity EchoLink does is phone home to it's own
indexing severs to report change of status of the nodes. The current
status and nodes-online list is here:

<http://echolink.org/logins.jsp>

[EchoLink is a peer-to-peer protocol, but in a manner similar to Bit
Torrrent or Skype, DOES use centralized servers to broker the initial
connection(s).

------------------------------------------------------------------------

--

Stephen H. Smith wa8lmf (at) aol.com
EchoLink Node: WA8LMF or 14400 [Think bottom of the 2M band]
Skype: WA8LMF
Home Page: http://wa8lmf.net

JavAPRS Filter Port 14580 Guide
http://wa8lmf.net/aprs/JAVaprsFilters.htm

"APRS 101" Explanation of APRS Path Selection & Digipeating
http://wa8lmf.net/DigiPaths

Updated "Rev H" APRS http://wa8lmf.net/aprs
Symbols Set for UI-View,
UIpoint and APRSplus:

[Robert Bruninga]

Post by Kent Hufford
"Echolink node is supposed to show up on
APRS maps with their freq." WHO is
supposed to do this?

Anyone that feels as strongly as I do that APRS is supposed to
be a service to the mobile operator and ham radio, and not some
one-way blind vehicle tracking system. Since 2001 or so, I have
been trying to get Echolink, and IRLP seamless integrated into
APRS so that mobiles can see where they were.

And I even got Echolink to centrally inject an object/status for
each echolink node into the APRS-IS so that local Igates could
then simply list the nodes into their pass-to-rf list and the
project was done. Problem is simply getting people to do it.

Initially ALL echolink objects were injected, but the next day
we got a cry from the shack-internet junkies who display
EVERYTHING unfiltered on the APRS-IS that it was "cluttering"
their maps. But I tell you, the echolink objects are not for
those internet junkies, but for the mobile operator who is out
in the field and needs the info. The couch potato in his shack
has a phone, and the internet. He doesn't need this
infortmation, so he should not deny it from those that do.

So the EchoLink author added a flag to his EchoLink users that
the node owner had to flip that SEND-TO-APRS flag to get the
object injected, and then the local Igate opwerator had to flag
that OBJECT to pass-through-to-RF.

These objects are supposed to be DIRECT, only in range of the
echolink or IRLP itself, and are not spam from out of area. Any
Igate that SPAMS 2 hops should not turn on these objects sine
they will then be additional spam. But for sure, if the Igate's
digi and the Echolink node share a common footprint, it is the
Igate operator's responsibility to have this in his list and
serve his area.

Bob, WB4APR

[John Denison]

This might help... Active Echolink nodes can be seen on Google Earth by
installing the Echolink plug-in found on the Link Status page at
http://www.echolink.org. When you click on a node, it will show whatever
frequency the node uses if it was provided. Nearby nodes can also be seen.

Is it possible to show APRS objects on Google Earth?

73s

John Denison
KD5YOU

[Keith VE7GDH]

John KD5YOU wrote...

Post by John Denison
Is it possible to show APRS objects on Google Earth?

Do you mean like aprs.kml from http://aprs.fi (all stations, not just
objects) or www.irlp.net/setup-irlp.kml for IRLP nodes?

73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
--
"I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!"

[Gregg Wonderly]

Post by Keith VE7GDH
John KD5YOU wrote...

Post by John Denison
Is it possible to show APRS objects on Google Earth?

Do you mean like aprs.kml from http://aprs.fi (all stations, not just
objects) or www.irlp.net/setup-irlp.kml for IRLP nodes?

You might also look at http://aprskml.dev.java.net. It is a server application
that you can use to connect to the APRS-IS, with filters, to get the stations
you want. It binds to a port on the computer it is run on, and then you can
"Add->Network Link" in google earth to "listen" to what the APRS-IS is
publishing with your filtering in place.

Gregg Wonderly
W5GGW

[Shawn Stoddard]

Oh yes. I use the link for KML APRS objects from aprs.fi and other sites all the time.


-----Original Message-----
From: John Denison <kd5you-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 1:51 AM
To: aprssig-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [aprssig] Echolink Expert needed

This might help... Active Echolink nodes can be seen on Google Earth by
installing the Echolink plug-in found on the Link Status page at
http://www.echolink.org. When you click on a node, it will show whatever
frequency the node uses if it was provided. Nearby nodes can also be seen.

Is it possible to show APRS objects on Google Earth?

73s

John Denison
KD5YOU